Howard Baer is recognized by educators throughout the world as a master of musical communication with children. Often they are curious about the process of creating effective musical arrangements for children. Here is an excerpt from a recent interview with Dr. Gwendolyn McGraw former Chair of the Dept of Music Education, Thornton School of Music, University of Southern California, currently lecturer with the UCLA Music School.

... Dr. McGraw asks:

Q1: I loved the line in your email about coming to "an understanding of what type of writing can draw a child to listen, to move, to sing along, and to experience fully". Could you please discuss the ways in which you "invite" young children to join in the musical adventure?

Q2: I also enjoyed learning that you have written film scores-- and I hear some parallels to film scoring in the song arrangements on the Fisher-Price CD ('Little People: Sing-A-Long Favorites' -- Fisher-Price / Somerset Ent). Is there a way in which you approach the playful chldren's song that is similar to your work in film scoring? (For the record, I have often compared a good children's song to a movie or mini-drama when discussing children's songs with my adult students who don't seem to 'get' what this type of song means to a young child.)

Q3: Dramatic interest is apparent from the opening bars in each song introduction and interest is maintained to the closing notes of each musical "story" that you orchestrate. What are some of the things that you think about in creating a mood, building and sustaining interest, maintaining the "drama" of it all? Could you discuss this?

Q4: When you are given a set of songs to arrange, is there some sort of global process that you use at the beginning of your work? (I understand that each song is a little different). More specifically, how do you get at the "spirit" of each song so that you can tell the story through music?

Q5: This Fisher-Price recording has an exuberance that is not often heard on a children's music series recording. What, in your opinion, is the reason for that?

Q6: The Fisher-Price recording sounds almost "through- composed" (as does each song) in terms of the song sequence, the unusally brief time between cuts, and the push-pull of energy/tension, and so forth. Did you typically think of a project in these terms, or was the track arrangement an "after-the-fact" sort of thing?

Q7: I gather that you did a lot of the orchestration on MIDI. What were the reasons that a number of instruments (mostly winds + guitar) were played live in the studio. Did you do all scoring on MIDI and have those parts ready for players, or was there some "collaborative/improvisatory" contribution n the part of the muscians in the studio? In addition: could you describe your MIDI setup... i.e. is it computer based, or does it involve one of the multi-tracking recording "workstations" --for example, a synthesizer like the Motif (or other similar equipment)?

Q8: This is a tough one: a lot of the playsong vocals on children's series recordings are now being sung by children's choirs. Although I love the sound (and have directed a number of wonderful childen's choirs over the years), I personally think that the trained and polished sound takes away from the "playful feel" on many songs. I feel sure that your arrangements could compensate in many ways for this, but is this something you have ever considered?

Q9: Could you compare your approach to scoring/arranging for children to what you hear happening in the industry? What do you like/dislike about current trends in children's CDs?

Q10: A couple of specific arranging/orchestration type questions. a) You use a lot of detached articulation--on most instruments--on the play songs. Could you talk about that? b) You use a lot of non-pitched percussion, and use it in a number of ways that seem to be innovative? Could you also address this? I suppose that the use of 'a lot of detached articulation' is some kind of subconscious attempt to achieve good energy and 'brightness'.

Q11: Age-related considerations: does your style of arranging change for children of different ages? For example, do the Baby CDs that you have done sound different from songs scored for a 10-year-old?

Q12: What are some of the most important things you have learned in your 3,500 children's song career? (That's a truly amazing number of songs!!!) Of those 3,500 songs, are there some that stand out as being your very best work--the arrangements that you are most proud of? Could you name those songs, tell where readers might find them, and tell why you consider them to be the examples that you are most proud of?

Q13: I have some specific questions about what seems to be part of your approach to arranging-- motivic, linear, through-composed, clever use of modulations (and the list goes on and on). What do you consider most important and why?

Q14: There are a number of research articles that suggest that young children "shut down" when recordings are played-- that spontaneous musical behaviors tend to disappear... That's one reason I was fascinated by your comment 'an understanding of what type of writing can draw a child to listen, to move, to sing along, and to experience fully'.

All in all, I'm sure that it's a very tricky paradigm, and I believe it takes a "master" to get there with a recorded arrangement... What is it about what you do (and have done for all these years with so many different projects) that would encourage "playful" musical responses from children?

---

Q1: I loved the line in your email about coming to "an understanding of what type of writing can draw a child to listen, to move, to sing along, and to experience fully". Could you please discuss the ways in which you "invite" young children to join in the musical adventure?

Right from the first note, the first sound in my arrangement I try to say, "Hey, listen to this! I've got a story for you to hear!" OR "I'm going somewhere really cool! Wanna come along?" With a little luck, if the child's sitting on the floor, they'll jump up and start moving right away. (At least this is what's happening in my mind! I unfortunately don't very often get to enjoy seeing children actually experiencing these arrangements for the first time-- but I must say that I get some exciting reports!)

I try to use a combination of just a few instruments on any given arrangement. I like the idea of a child being able to pick out, or at least be able to start to learn the difference between, a harp and and flute, a trumpet and a bassoon. Too often we're hit with a barrage of musical sound and it's too difficult to pick out the individual colours. That, I think, can be a really fun part of the musical adventure (with the help of a teacher perhaps)-- the exploration and discovery of musical components.

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Q2: I also enjoyed learning that you have written film scores-- and I hear some parallels to film scoring in the song arrangements on the Fisher-Price CD ('Little People: Sing-A-Long Favorites' -- Fisher-Price / Somerset Ent). Is there a way in which you approach the playful chldren's song that is similar to your work in film scoring? (For the record, I have often compared a good children's song to a movie or mini-drama when discussing children's songs with my adult students who don't seem to 'get' what this type of song means to a young child.)

Maybe it's my love for film-scoring, the enjoyment of seeing music married to picture, and my own personal need to write in that style that has led me, when writing for children-- (especially for children since they have the best imaginations!) to imagine a picture or a story, and 'score it' saying, "OK, can you see what I see?"

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Q3: Dramatic interest is apparent from the opening bars in each song introduction and interest is maintained to the closing notes of each musical "story" that you orchestrate. What are some of the things that you think about in creating a mood, building and sustaining interest, maintaining the "drama" of it all? Could you discuss this?

Part of it is 'casting' the film: 'The part of the brown bear is played by the bass clarinet, the gentle breeze (harp) floats along supporting the colourful leaves played by the flute and celesta... etc, etc' The intro usually introduces the players, who then have their own feature part throughout the course of the song, and usually everyone comes back by the end to join together and say "...and that's the end of the story!" All this, of course, has to be done, without getting in the way of the soloist or choir singing the words of the story, I have to be inventive and clever, and I have to draw on every ounce of knowledge and experience that I have with counterpoint and orchestration, as well as production techniques, stereo image creation, and sound processing! Oh, and I really don't think of it very much at all actually. It is just part of the process of beginning, working through, and eventually saying, "OK, that's it... uh... no wait, I'll change that first-- There, that's it! Next..."

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Q4: When you are given a set of songs to arrange, is there some sort of global process that you use at the beginning of your work? (I understand that each song is a little different). More specifically, how do you get at the "spirit" of each song so that you can tell the story through music?

I like to look at the song title, then at the lyrics to get a sense of story. I always try, right away, to play with some musical ideas that will provide a nice backdrop for the story-- this is very important as it will set the tone for the entire arrangement, and it will be used as intro, interludes, and possibly a 'tag' ending-- a simple ostinato pattern, a rhythmic idea, a catchy groove, a tonal progression etc. (The idea could piano-based, approached from a guitarist's standpoint, a purely rhythmic pattern or a combination of orchestral or ethnic instruments-- depending on 'the story'.)

But, before I commit to anything (!!), I glance at the melody and decide what key would work best for the voices that will sing it (soloist, children's choir, male adult etc), best for the other songs that will end up near it in the final sequence (you don't want 3 songs back to back in D major), and best for the acoustic instruments that will be playing the arrangement, thereby avoiding Db major for violin, B major for trumpet or F minor for guitar-- (Of course there are ways around these difficult keys from a performance standpoint when you're working with professionals, but some instruments just sound better when they avoid certain keys!) I have to know the key before I get serious about my 'backdrop'-- There's nothing worse than establishing a perfect arrangement idea for a song in C major and then realizing that it has to be sung in Eb major! It doesn't feel or sound the same a minor 3rd higher.

Once I have the key, the backdrop and the instrumentation determined, I let my main idea drive the arrangement, as I allow shape, variety, and interest to carry me from verse to verse and through the song.

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Q5: This Fisher-Price recording has an exuberance that is not often heard on a children's music series recording. What, in your opinion, is the reason for that?

I certainly aim for exhuberence, as I aim for tenderness at times, and sad emotions at others. I think it's fun to try to pull a variety of emotional responses from a child as he or she hears, sings with, and dances to my music. It's especially fun when that happens in the studio with a kids' choir or child soloists. Unfortunately for me, I seldom get to see the final result as my music reaches the hands (and ears) of a child at home or in school. I often have to rely on reports from teachers, parents or workshop leaders!

With respect to the Fisher-Price recording we certainly chose the titles with energy and spirit in mind. The fabulous singers and actors (all adults performing as 'Little People' incidentally!) that we hired to perform these songs (and improvise spoken intros, verbal asides, and bits of dialogue) brought the entire project to a very high level of energy and exhuberence and much is owed to them on that count.

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Q6: The Fisher-Price recording sounds almost "through-composed" (as does each song) in terms of the song sequence, the unusally brief time between cuts, and the push-pull of energy/tension, and so forth. Did you typically think of a project in these terms, or was the track arrangement an "after-the-fact" sort of thing?

There are times when I'm asked to write according to a pre-determined sequence (for teaching purposes) of songs, dances, chants, listening examples, movement stories, and poems. (More often I have to write and record before the final sequence is determined.) Sometimes it's up to me to determine the sequence of songs, which I normally do after everything is recorded keeping in mind pacing, tonality, instrumentation, and who's singing-- in order to give the best variety and shape to the project. I rarely, if ever, shape the sequence of an entire project before I start writing.

If it's in my hands I like a good space between cuts to allow the listener to complete the feel of one song, take a breath, and then head out in a different direction.

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Q7: I gather that you did a lot of the orchestration on MIDI. What were the reasons that a number of instruments (mostly winds + guitar) were played live in the studio. Did you do all scoring on MIDI and have those parts ready for players, or was there some "collaborative/improvisatory" contribution n the part of the muscians in the studio? In addition: could you describe your MIDI setup... i.e. is it computer based, or does it involve one of the multi-tracking recording "workstations" --for example, a synthesizer like the Motif (or other similar equipment)?

The entire process for me now, in creating an arrangement, is MIDI-based. It certainly was not always so-- I'm old enough to have had the distinct advantage of writing with pencil on score paper note by note and having to imagine the orchestrated sounds in my head. Musician's parts were all hand-copied of course. As the technology became available in the early '80s to use electronic keyboards and acoustic instrument samples to put ideas together, I very carefully and gradually made the change over several years.

However, and this is so very important, I still must think like a flute player when I write (and 'play in') a flute line and I must think like a bassist as I play in the bass part, and as a violinist, or trumpeter depending on what I'm 'writing'. This is the only way to have my MIDI approximation sound right (no matter how good the electronic sound).

I also spend a lot of time editing all musicians' parts that will be performed by live players, adding articulation, phrasing and dynamic markings. The arrangement is in my head and not the head of the musician who comes to studio and I always want to give him or her a running start at interpreting the part. Of course there is always discussion and modification of the part during the recording process and I'm certainly open to 'on the floor' input from the amazing players that I work with in studio! Most of my sessions are very carefully and completely scored for the players I bring in unless there is 'jazz' or other kind of improvisatory feel involved, or unless I'm working with musicians of other ethnic musical origin (celtic is a good example) where feel is the thing and, though absolutely incredible musicians, they couldn't read a note of what I might put on paper. Most times, of course, I couldn't imagine a fraction of the amazing stuff that they inevitably come up with anyway!

There are some amazing sounds available through the MIDI process and through computerized music production and I certainly take advantage of this. However any project is made a million times better by the addition of (and featuring of) live performances. My rule is: If it's a feature, it's gotta be live! Music is only partly mathematical! Human feel (and even imperfection!) are such an important part of production-- It's the part that we all connect with, and 'connecting' is what music is all about.

My MIDI setup is computer-based using MIDI/audio/notation software that combines MIDI-driven sound modules and keyboards, sampling technology, audio-based looping technology, live audio recording as well as complete scoring and part generation capabilites.

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Q8: This is a tough one: a lot of the playsong vocals on children's series recordings are now being sung by children's choirs. Although I love the sound (and have directed a number of wonderful childen's choirs over the years), I personally think that the trained and polished sound takes away from the "playful feel" on many songs. I feel sure that your arrangements could compensate in many ways for this, but is this something you have ever considered?

I agree with you that 'this is a tough one'. The goal is always to provide a good model of pitch-accurate, polished sound production with good diction and 'precision ensemble' vocal production in order to give the listener something to strive for and provide the teacher or workshop leader with a good example of 'proper singing'. However this can come at quite a cost if the sound produced for the recording lacks in a child's energy, warmth, spontaneity, enthusiasm and innocence. It's a very tricky balance to strike, and personally I'm happier with 'kids that sound like real kids' even if the occassional note is a little out of tune or the vowel sound is quite 'round enough'-- but then that's easy for me to say because I'm not the classroom teacher!

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Q9: Could you compare your approach to scoring/arranging for children to what you hear happening in the industry? What do you like/dislike about current trends in children's CDs?

I really don't spend any time at all investigating what else is going on in the industry. I do what I do, and what I continue to be asked to do. My own children are grown and I'm a bit disconnected frankly! What I do know is that there's plenty of opportunity for kids to be exposed to 'pop music'-- it's definitely out there, it's everywhere, as is the whole of 'pop culture', ready to help your child grow up very quickly! Maybe it's one of my own personal goals to be sure that I'm not just giving them what they can so easily get everywhere else they turn.

Perhaps I can help to preserve that very special time called childhood which is very short and very important. I've been so furtunate to have been connected, in my work with children, to educators and editors committed to finding those precious 'gems' of children's material-- folk music, stories and songs that can capture the imagination of the young mind and spirit and that sadly are disappearing amidst today's kids' pop culture. I'm very thankful.

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Q10: A couple of specific arranging/orchestration type questions. a) You use a lot of detached articulation--on most instruments--on the play songs. Could you talk about that? b) You use a lot of non-pitched percussion, and use it in a number of ways that seem to be innovative? Could you also address this? I suppose that the use of 'a lot of detached articulation' is some kind of subconscious attempt to achieve good energy and 'brightness'.

Again, I don't really think about it too much, that's just how I hear the musical sentences-- punctuated and animated. It seems friendlier and less 'aloof'. Articulation is certainly important to me and I spend lots of time notating it prior to session and talking about it during session.

I often, in a childrens' choir session make suggestions that are 'choral singing rule breakers' in order to get a better sense of what I feel the song is about-- likely shortening long notes at the ends of phrases OR getting through the vowel and to the consanant early in order to create a type of vocal 'sound effect' OR changing a 't' sound to a 'd' sound to pull attention away from a harsh consonant-- for example: 'liddle' instead of 'little'. I'm not big on 'double consonants' and find, for instance, that 'lost tiger' makes much more sense and is much easier to understand when sung 'losstiger'.

I am big on strong and weak syllables as well as musical dynamic and phrasing whether the 'phrase' contains 12 notes, 2 notes, or even 1 note! I try to relate 'sung' things to 'spoken' things and get my choirs to sing it like they'd say it. It's very odd how we talk very musically in our day to day conversations with strong/weak syllables and sentences that have shape and direction but then become much less musical when we start to sing!! I find I have to constantly be reminding children and adults alike to sing it like they'd speak it!

I 've always found that children seem to love percussion and react well to it. Maybe it's easy to relate to, very basic, like clapping hands, stomping feet, tapping on the window, knocking at the door. I guess also it can be used like punctuation when writing musical sentences. I enjoy painting animal pictures with unpitched percussion sounds-- tambourine hits for dog barks, sandpaper or cabasa for scurrying mice, guiro for frogs, bass drum for elephant steps etc. I like the effect of all 'the music' stopping, leaving room for a single 'hit' or series of 'hits' (which, of course, are music too)-- it then becomes something the child waits for and can join in with.

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Q11: Age-related considerations: does your style of arranging change for children of different ages? For example, do the Baby CDs that you have done sound different from songs scored for a 10-year-old?

I don't really approach an arrangement differently depending on the age group for which it'll be used. Basically, I have to find an 'idea' that best tells the story whether the kids are 2 or 10. Having said that, I think that an older child is able to handle more 'musical interaction' within an arrangement, whereas a very young child is probably better off dealing with fewer musical elements-- one or two instruments, one or two musical ideas.

I certainly make great use of techniques like ostinati and pattern repetition, as well as pedal point-- changing harmonies above or below (or within) fixed pitches. I just like the sound, especially for children, and even more especially, I suppose, for younger children.

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Q12: What are some of the most important things you have learned in your 3,500 children's song career? (That's a truly amazing number of songs!!!) Of those 3,500 songs, are there some that stand out as being your very best work--the arrangements that you are most proud of? Could you name those songs, tell where readers might find them, and tell why you consider them to be the examples that you are most proud of?

I'm afraid I've lost track of a lot of my work, that is to say that I always 'move on' to the next song, the next series, the next program. Occasionally I have the opportunity to revisit my stuff through other revisions of a program, a resequencing of a project or a friend or colleague or interested third party that brings a song or arrangement to mind. It's always fun and I get a kick out of rediscovering some good musical moments!

I learned alot about song structure snd shaping arrangements during my years of work with Silver Burdett and Macmillan-McGraw-Hill. However, the person who I give the greatest credit for drawing out my musical and creative best in children's music, and for allowing me to explore beyond the usual restraints of song structure, is Dr. Lorna Heyge. She is the creator of the wonderful Musikgarten series with whom I've worked for more than 15 years now on various projects and programs in the US and Canada, and now internationally in Germany, Britain, Malaysia, South Korea, and China. She always does the most important work of finding those 'gems' of children's musical material that I referred to earlier, and that makes my job so much easier. I would invite anyone to visit our collaborative work at Musikgarten!

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Q13: I have some specific questions about what seems to be part of your approach to arranging-- motivic, linear, through-composed, clever use of modulations (and the list goes on and on). What do you consider most important and why?

I'm so glad you've asked these excellent questions in such a wonderfully perceptive way! You've allowed me to think about things that I really haven't thought too much about with respect to my writing. Thank you!

Of course, motivic writing is important-- carrying through on musical ideas that you start with, developing a motif to represent a character in the story etc, yes. My linear writing comes from some good solid teaching in the area of counterpoint (thank you Margaret Harmer!) and I've always loved the challenge of creating lines that interact with each other but that don't fight, and the challenge of implying harmonies while using only lines.

I must say I've never thought too much about the 'through-composed' thing with respect to writing for children because it's usually song arranging which are fairly structured with intros, verses, refrains, interludes etc. Certainly whenever I can break away I do and go on a journey from A to B with as many diversions as possible!

...segue into 'modulations': Modulations, transitions, and tonality shifts are wonderful, and sadly under-used tools to help the listener go on a journey, to have an adventure! Especially when using familiar material in several different 'tonal zones' is it possible to invite the child on the 'journey' because somehow he or she knows that it's 'safe'-- the material is familiar. One of my favourite tricks (I'm giving away one of my secrets here!) is to start a musical introduction exploring a certain key or tonality and then right before the crucial vocal entry point making a sharp turn into the 'song key'-- certainly keeps the academics smiling!

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Q14: There are a number of research articles that suggest that young children "shut down" when recordings are played-- that spontaneous musical behaviors tend to disappear... That's one reason I was fascinated by your comment 'an understanding of what type of writing can draw a child to listen, to move, to sing along, and to experience fully'.

All in all, I'm sure that it's a very tricky paradigm, and I believe it takes a "master" to get there with a recorded arrangement... What is it about what you do (and have done for all these years with so many different projects) that would encourage "playful" musical responses from children?

If I can sink my teeth into a good song, find the story, a musical idea with which to explore that story, be true to the importance of the musical journey itself, and create ways to twist and turn along the way, children will come along and enjoy it with me. If I lose sight of what made me smile when I was young then it'll be much more difficult to encourage 'playful' musical responses from children but... I have no plans to ever lose that vision!

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